Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Bäckadräkten/archive1

Bäckadräkten[edit]

Featured article candidates/Bäckadräkten/archive1

Nominator(s): Dugan Murphy (talk) 16:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Earlier this year I saw a Swedish folk musician named Fredy Clue perform while wearing an outfit that looked pretty special: Bäckadräkten. Being a fan of folk music, but also from the US, I didn't know much about folk costumes. Talking to Clue, I learned a little bit about what they were wearing and why it is special. Looking into it online, the costume looked like a notable subject without a Wiki article, so I spent some time going through all the reliable sources I could find and drafting something something I think is worthy of FAC. I collected a few relevant photos and got the permissions necessary to include them in the article. I've seen 8 other articles through the FAC and FL, but all of them on historical topics. This is my first on a current topic, relying entirely on modern media. Thank you in advance for taking a look at the article and making some comments! Dugan Murphy (talk) 16:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draken Bowser[edit]

Ida Björs, of Järvsö? She's got to be a relative of the famous potato farmers. Anyways:

Design: I stumbled a bit during my first read through since "the hardest part of the costume" is used twice, only to realize it deals with either of the co-designers in turn. Do you think it would make sense to combine the statements into one sentence? -- ~~"The brooch pins together the costume's square standing collar" feels incomplete.~~

Somebody commented on the talk page about this aspect of the article, so now that you bring it up, I really think it's worth addressing. I've reworded that section to more clearly juxtapose the two opinions. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:42, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Background: I think the 20th century revival needs to be more clearly presented as a revival. Otherwise it might be unclear that regional costumes had already existed among the peasantry at parish level, while (iirc) the novelty of the 20th century was the creation of costumes representing entire landscapes (and of course the Sverigedräkt, but there are no issues as to how that's presented).

I just reworded that section, adding a couple words like romantic nationalism from the source. I'm not sure I can say what you're looking for without an additional source to draw from that speaks to folk costume history more generally. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:42, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nicely done, I don't think we need to elaborate further within the scope of this article. /DB

Development: "nor collaborated with a ~~project~~ partner on a clothing project."

That's a fine recommendation. Accepted. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:42, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Release: "Sweden's first unisex folk costume" - one instance of notestacking is not worth quarreling over. Still, do you think one or two could be removed?

I do. The stacked citations are there to support that a longer version of that sentence which stated Bäckadräkten is widely reported as the first. Somebody recently pointed out this was WP:SYNTH, and removed the "widely reported" claim. Now it seems we can get by with just one citation, which is what you'll now see. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:42, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reception: I think Clue gets just a little bit too much space to expound on their views here. Do you think the second paragraph could be shortened?

Shortened. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:42, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regards. Draken Bowser (talk) 07:39, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for taking the time to read through the article and make a few comments! I look forward to the source review. Dugan Murphy (talk) 20:42, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

Spot check Checking 2, 5, 6, 9 and 13.

2: checks out, though there is a missed opportunity here. The source explains how the name "Bäckadräkten" is also part of the flowing water theme, "bäck" meaning stream (specifically of the watery kind).

That's a very good point! I just added that. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:36, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

9: Svårast att sy berättar hon att de små, små fina vecken på skjortan So it is the pleats of the shirt Björs found the most difficult. Additionally, the way I'm reading note 7 Clue is describing the intricacies of the fabric requiring a hand-woven process, but it seems that this work was done by the weaver in Delsbo and not by Clue or Björs. -- The source was published before the 2022 Delsbostämma, so it is crystalballing that he might wear the dräkt (it would surprise me if he didn't, but we need another note for that).

Thank you for catching the skirt/shirt mixup. That is fixed. I removed the line about Clue saying what part of the costume was hardest to produce. And I see what you're saying about the crystal ball. I removed the reference to the Delsbo event. It was a bit tacked-on anyway. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:36, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

13: I'm not certain "early-20th-century Swedish folk costumes" is correct here. The article talks about skördesärkar och liknande plagg från förra sekelskiftet. A "skördesärk" and "similar vestments" refers to everyday clothing not directly associated with folk costumes. "Sekelskifte" is usually regarded as meaning before and/or after the year 1900, somewhat similar to "the turn of the century".

I agree. I changed "early-20th-century Swedish folk costumes" to "traditional Swedish clothing from the turn of the 20th century". That seems a better fit. I'll address the next comment in a little bit. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:36, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2 and 13: I don't see them explicitly supporting that he wore the costume to such events (it would surprise me if he didn't, but we might need another note here).

You're right! Source 2 doesn't say anything despite my notes and 13 says the costume was sometimes on tour during the exhibit, though it doesn't explicitly say what being on tour means. I've removed that sentence but added a line at the beginning of that section about the single copy of the costume being meant for Clue's use on stage, which is supported by source 8. Dugan Murphy (talk) 16:51, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Overall

Sourcing looks decent. There are no academic publications on Bäckadräkten as of yet (not counting the one undergraduate essay published earlier this year). The sources are mostly published by reputable Swedish and international news organisations. The Facebook-source is self published by the Swedish Institute, which is fine. Svart Pist Publishing is a PR firm, but they have experience publishing on Helsingiana topics for several years and I don't think they've been used inappropriately here. I'm agnostic on mumblemusic.net, I'd appreciate if you could give me your assessment of it in terms of reliability. I've never seen the |location= parameter used for {{Cite news}} and I don't think it adds any value, I'd prefer to omit it.

I'm leaning pass, but might do another spot-check before completing the review. Draken Bowser (talk) 15:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Pbritti[edit]

Reserving a slot. I'll have more time soon (Thursday especially) but I have to prioritize some offline stuff. I made some minor tweaks on this article when it ran at DYK, but I don't think they're significant enough to qualify me as having been seriously involved in the article. ~ Pbritti (talk) 00:38, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like every linked online reference still works with the exception of Engström. Consider using url-status=live so that the original website link is displayed more prominently, followed by the archived version. For Engström, url-status=dead.

Thank you for the recommendation! Accepted. The Engström link has a paywall, but it is not dead, so I added url-status=live to every citation. Dugan Murphy (talk) 21:52, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I must have an issue accessing even the paywalled version of the Engström piece, but this is almost certainly an issue with my devices (I've seen it before). Good work! ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:54, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Helsinki is linked in a reference. I'm inclined to believe it might not need to be, but that's up to you.

Draken Bowser brought up that the location parameter isn't all that necessary for the cite news template, so I removed this. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

,[8] artist[3] and musician[10] Fredy Clue Citations mid-sentence can be visually jarring, particularly when not immediately preceded by punctuation. Consider pushing all of them to the end of the sentence (which would also negate the need to cite Andersson twice for the same sentence). You can leave the sentence about international news coverage on the subject alone, as the commas and sentence structure lend themselves to this citation placement. I think Clue sells copies of the pattern[12] is probably ok, but I'd encourage you reserve citation placement to only after punctuation.

I see what you're saying. I followed your recommendation and moved all citations in the sentence from your first example to the end of that sentence. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

which appears like a bodice in the front, but a vest in the back I'd consider insertion of "feminine" before bodice and "masculine" before vest. Additionally, if possible, consider indicating what elements from both garments that are present in Bäckadräkten.

"Feminine" and "masculine" added! Unfortunately, the sources don't speak to the specifics desired. 23:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

he shirt's fine pleats Is this "fine" in the sense of being small or "fine" in the sense of being of a remarkably high quality? If possible, illustration of this intricate detail would be incredible.

Changed "fine" for "thin" for clarity. I don't think the sources offer more detail on this, unfotrunately. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

experimentations with unisex folk costume designs. There is unanimous agreement that Bäckadräkten is the first unisex Swedish folk costume. However, this sentence leaves open the possibility that unisex folk garments were produced in Sweden before Bäckadräkten. Is there space to elaborate on these experiments and their outcomes?

Reworded. The BBC article includes some stories about a couple other people in other Scanidavian countries combining and modifying existing folk costume elements to make them more gender-flexible, but I think exploring those stories is beyond the scope of this article. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A post about it on the official Facebook page of Sweden was shared by users on that platform over 1,900 times and attracted over 1,500 comments and 6,700 reactions. Part of me thinks this is BLUESKY, but part of me thinks this is original research. I say the latter because listing the number of interactions suggests there is something significant in this number of interactions (that it is more/fewer than usual, an indication of controversy, or a display of popular support) without a reliable source that interprets this. I'd suggest retaining the source but just adding to the preceding sentence that the Swedish government published it on Facebook.

I think venturing to say whether the number of interactions is significant would be original research, which is why I simply listed the numbers instead of my interpretation of those numbers. I think naming the Swedish Institute here is appropriate. That is done. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

have welcomed the new development Now that the Bäckadräkten is a couple years old and to improve the shelf-life of the sentence, I suggest rewording the sentence to read "welcomed the development" or "welcomed the introduction of the Bäckadräkten".

Good point! Changed to "welcomed the development". Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:57, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clue did not report any reactions from the organization I don't speak Swedish, but this seems vague: did Clue report that the organization has not reacted or has Clue been mum on the subject, which suggests the organization hasn't commented?

Thank you for pointing this out. I reworded, so it should be clear now. Dugan Murphy (talk) 23:39, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be a bit of a minimization of critics of Bäckadräkten in the article. This may be the result of the sourcing, but including what really only amounts to "social media users mean, more at 11," followed by a response by Clue. This makes the article feel a bit too laudatory (but only a bit). I'd strive to include even just one more sentence of negative criticism, but I understand if sourcing to this end is scant.

Please note that this is my first "real" FAC review, so my comments are to be taken with a grain of salt. The article is already exceptional so skipping the GA/PR step isn't an issue to me. Wikipedia is far better for this article! ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:44, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the comments! I should be able to address these and respond by Wednesday. Dugan Murphy (talk) 11:16, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. I'll be free from around 19:00 UTC Wednesday to discuss anything! Best, ~ Pbritti (talk) 19:45, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your replies and adjustments have addressed all my concerns sufficiently. I'm very happy to report that Dugan Murphy provided me the first support !vote at an FAC I nominated and that an article they nominated will receive the first support !vote I've cast in an FAC. Excellent job on a very cool subject! ~ Pbritti (talk) 15:04, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

HF[edit]

I'll try to review this soon. I don't speak Swedish and my idea of fashion is "pearl snap shirt and blue jeans" so the coordinators should please consider this to be a nonexpert review. Hog Farm _Talk 01:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Its fabric, sourced from Ljusdal," - is this referring to the fabric of the costume as a whole, or of the livstycke is particular?
What is Boras Pride?
"and juxtaposed it against unisex design elements from traditional Swedish clothing from the turn of the 20th century." - I'm struggling to figure out what exactly you mean by this - did the older clothing have individual elements that were unisex?
"Clue announced the sewing pattern was available as of May 2023" - is there a source actually post-dating the release that can be used to support this?
"A post about it on the official Facebook page of Sweden was shared by users on that platform over 1,900 times and attracted over 1,500 comments and 6,700 reactions" - is there something other than the Facebook post itself that can be used to better demonstrate the significance? Some context would also be useful - is 1,900 shares an unusual amount for context such as this? I also think self-sourcing of things such as this tends to indicate that the information may not be due weight
Is there anything that can really be said about the reaction to this beyond "there were mixed emotions on social media but the guy who created this says everything is okay"? A search for scholarly sources only brings up two unusable undergraduate works, so there doesn't seem to be much available there, but "people talked about it on social media" is a very low bar.

That's it from me for now, this is a less in-depth review than I usually perform due to my unfamiliarity with the subject matter and inability to read the languages that much of the relevant sourcing is in. Hog Farm _Talk 03:23, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]